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Aug 14 2009 05:00 PM ET
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Brooke Burke on Having the Sex Talk With Your Kids

Todd Williamson/WireImage

Brooke Burke doesn’t “have all the answers” for her children — Neriah, 9, Sierra Sky, 7, Heaven Rain, 2 ½, and Shaya Braven, 17 months — but is “committed to being truthful with them.” That resolve was tested recently when Neriah came to her with a dreaded subject among many moms — sex questions!

Although the former DWtS champ has “always been open and honest” with her daughters — the girls had already seen the National Geographic special In The Womb — Brooke confesses she had been able to “focus on what happens to the sperm and the egg and so on and so on, without ever addressing how they get together…” until Neriah approached with follow-up queries.

When Neriah asked about the specifics of the process, Brooke bounced the question back at her, asking what she thought. When her daughter replied, “From sex,” Brooke says she was left “wondering whom she is talking about sex with and why it is coming up NOW!” Since Neriah was a bit embarrassed by their discussion, Brooke “reassured her that we can talk about anything, and that most importantly I want her to have the correct information.”

The phone rang and Brooke, 37, admits that she was “saved for the night,” but still went ahead and ordered It’s So Amazing!: A Book about Eggs, Sperm, Birth, Babies, and Families for the next time the topic arises. While she doesn’t know what the book will be like, Brooke promises that she will let everyone know what she thinks, “and even better, I’ll share my daughter’s perspective. We rarely talk about the thoughts of our children … I think there is much to learn from that.”

“When and how to have ‘the talk’ is crucial. I think it’s hard for all of us. How much info is too much? Too much too soon? I think every child is different. Honesty is all I know, but I would like to keep her naïve as long as possible. They’re all growing up too fast.”

Neriah and Sierra are Brooke’s children with ex-husband Dr. Garth Fisher, while Rain and Shaya are her kids with fiancé David Charvet.

Source: Modern Mom

– Angela

When did/do you plan to have “the talk” with your kids? Any recommendations for other parents?

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Comments (46) + Add a comment

I’m not a parent, so what do I know. I just had to laugh at her mentioning that her daughter was embarassed by their discussion, I’m sure she’ll be thrilled to have it published! those ‘celebrities’, they’re so funny.

- kai on

I grew up in ultra conservative Minnesota…but my mom gave permission for me to be a part of the class that got to start having an open discussion about sex in first grade. I think they thought if it was in our conciousness we would make better choices. I honestly dont know how much we understood at the moment, but I think it worked very well. With my son, I plan to do something similar.

- aurora mia on

From day 1, I decided to be completely open and honest with my son over any questions he has about anything. I don’t think sugar-coating anything is wise. Eventually they will learn the truth and who knows where its comming from. It may be comming from a bad source. That can leave mental scars. The truth will stun them and may frighten them. Then, they may feel they have been lied to, by their own mother. I still let him think there is a santa and toothfairy and Easter bunny, but when it comes to crime, death, and the birds and bees, I am honest. Alot of people I tell this to think I am brutal and not a good mom. What do you people think?

- Amity on

Amity – I completely agree with you.

I am one of those people who think sex is so natural and easy to talk about and explain. It’s such a big part of our lives. It’s so important to talk about sex and pregnancy. I really don’t understand the fuss.

- Hea on

I feel I was so lucky growing up in a household where if we had a question about sex it was answered honestly and without hesitation by both my parents. Especially since I am female and I think we have trouble in this country (the US) dealing with and talking about female sexuality in an open and positive way. I had friends whose parents never even had the talk with them and looking back I just think how irresponsible that is as a parent.

- dee on

My mum is a midwife who started off working as a nurse in the NICU. As a result- I knew about where babies came from from a very young age and had a proper sex talk also from a very young age. By the time i was 8 i was being taught not to give into peer pressure when it came to sex smoking and drugs and to be perfectly honest I think I’m better because of it. It wasn’t about scaring me but more teaching me and I feel pretty in control and I’m pretty sensible about those things- and because of their open approach I’ve never been afraid to approach them about anything. I know people want to protect their children and its their perogative and at the end of the day they know whats best for them and their family/situation but what my parents did worked for me and my siblings and I’ll probably take the same apporach when i have children- Knowledge is power after all

- Sophie on

We have 3 kids-13,11 and 9. I’ve never had THE talk, it has been age appropriate talk all along with our beliefs thrown into every discussion. I try to take their cue off of their questions and listen to what they really want to know. I have personally found the best place to talk to my kids about all kinds of things is the car on the way to errands. I’ll take one kid and the discussion seems easier and less embarrassing for all.

- Lorelei on

I’m not sure how I will handle it. My boys are 4 and 7 and at the moment their feelings about most girls is “girls are yucky”. Neither one has ever even shown an interest in where does the baby come from type things. I know the day is coming and truthfully it is best to be honest (as the majority of commenters have said). My Mother was always open about all of this kind of stuff. I think it was the “hippie” that lived inside of her when we were kids. :)

- kris on

Those poor kids! Brooke — respect their privacy! Don’t share it with the media!!!

- christina on

I don’t have children of an age where this is currently relevant, but my policy on this kind of thing is simply to have an open household, where no topic is off limits. If my children want to ask me about sex, I will answer any question they have. If they want to talk about relationships, and babies etc, I want them to feel like they can come to me. I will do this not only so they are well informed about things of this nature, but also because I want them to feel like they can come to me with ANYTHING. If they get in trouble, if something bad happens, the most important thing to me is that my children know they can talk to me about anything and that I will listen to anything they need to say.

That said, I don’t think any parent can really predict exactly how they will go about talking about things, because it completely depends on the child. Some kids will ask every question under the sun (like my niece who stood tall and proud in her chair in Pizza Hut once and asked very loudly ‘where do babies come from?’) and some will never ask a thing, sometimes preferring their friends as a source of information. Regardless, I do think the most important thing is that children know they CAN go to their parents, no matter how much they actually choose to do so.

- Alex on

I don’t think Brooke should be criticized. She wasn’t trying to embarass her kids she was just trying to make parents aware of a subject/situation that is very important and often ignored. Im glad she brought it up, many people don’t realize how their reaction and responce affects their kids.
I do feel bad that her children may be embarassed by it, but lets face it, when has a child not been embarassed by their parent.

- Micheley on

Also I think something that needs to be focussed on, and what I try to do, is to talk to our kids about not over sharing with their friends. I mean I have always been very open and honest with my children, and have never wanted them to feel ashamed of any question they may have. But I also try and tell them that some subjects are personal and other parents want to be able to talk to their kids about it. That goes for the sex talk, language, and even santa cluase. My children don’t believe in Santa but I do make it clear to them that we need to respect the other children and families who do and not discuss his ‘mythicness’ outside of the household.

- Micheley on

I don’t have kids but as for how it happened for me I never asked where babies came from because when I was 4 or 5 I got that really cool book for kids about the human body – like why do we have a skeleton, how does the body change as one grows up and grows old, how does tasting work (did you know different part of the tongue taste different kinds of flavors?)
It was all explained in a very simple, funny kind of way, not some kind of big complicated thing. I would read chapters with my mum and I loved it. And there was one chapter about babies, so I always knew but it wasn’t more embarassing or intriguing than why we have a skeleton. I think it’s good too not to make it more important or bizarre than the other things of life.

And as some of you said it’s good to be open with your kids and let them know they can tell you anything. When I was around 12 I asked in a very worried voice to my mom if sex felt good. I still remember her surprised face haha.

- Alice on

My kids just a baby, but I don’t think I can give her a talk. I mean, if we keep an open dialogue with her from early childhood till young adulthood about sex and the body hopefully that will be enough? Aside, from use condoms, don’t get pregnant, I never really got much of a talk that I can remember. It wasn’t that my mom wasn’t open, I was just very reserved about bodily topics period. Plus I had the internet and the library.

My husband is shaking in his boots because he was quite the womanizer in his teen and college years. So while I don’t think he’s going to be one of those guard dog dads, I’m pretty sure he’s going to try to make her an expert on weeding out the bad boys!

- gaia's mom on

Why do people make such a big deal about discussing this with kids that are ready to know more? And it boggles my mind that the ones who are most afraid of talking about it and discussing it are the ones who have not had any problems being immodest and “sexy” publically for all to see. It’s laughable. And perhaps it’s not the “religious, Puritanical, far-right conservative” folks who have issues with sex.

- Bitsy on

We never had “the talk”. Never made a big deal of it. The book “Where Do Babies Come From?” was in the stack with all the other books we read the kids before bed. We addressed questions as they came up in an age-appropriate manner. We were honest and open.

- MidlifeMidwife on

I got most of my information from friends however I did have a few health classes where the subject came up and I did once ask my mother exactly what sex was (I was 11 at the time) and she gave me a short, but honest answer. I think perhaps she could have been more open to talking about it, but I’m sure her mother never did so maybe she was just too embarrassed or too just unsure of what to say. I don’t blame her for that or anything but I definitely want to be different with my kids. I will answer their questions with age appropriate answers (not lies but maybe not the whole truth if I don’t feel they are quite ready for it) I will be sure that they know we can always talk about anything including sex. I don’t want my children to be embarrassed by the subject which I find most children are because they can sense the embarrassment from the parent who is talking about it with them (because let’s face it most of the time they are) So my goal is to be not phased by the subject because it is a very natural thing and while it shouldn’t necessarily be a public topic, no one should feel bad about wanting to discuss it.

- Laura on

Just wanted to add that one of my 11 year old daughter’s friends got her first period recently and was scared to death, she had no idea what was happening. Her mother never talked with her about it. I find that more awful then any embarassment any parent or child may feel about discussing sex and the human body.

- Lorelei on

Our thought has always been that kids should at least know the names of their “parts” from a pretty young age, for sure by the time they go to school. Put it this way, my best friend told me that at the time of her first gynecological appointment she was shocked that her doctor (a woman!) literally called all of her genitalia “bits” or “down there”! Yeah, she got a new doctor! LOL Point being, if you wait too long to identify things, or have “the talk”, even when the kid eventually gets the right info they’re likely to have a very weird, embarrassed attitude about the human body and all the stuff it can do. (Just waiting to get the call from my BFF saying “I can’t believe you told!” : )

- Erin on

P.S. – I mean the obvious parts to a little kid, not the stuff inside! That can hold off a little while!

- Erin on

I had my 3 1/2 year old watch “A Baby Story” on TLC. It was a rerun, so I knew it was a routine birth with an epidural (a woman in obvious pain wasnt age appropriate to me). She watched it, the whole thing. She asked questions, I answered them. Then the baby came out and she clapped and ran off to play. I was very relieved the question of “But Mama, how did the baby get IN the mommy’s tummy??” didnt come up, I admit! But when the time comes, I will talk to her, and our other daughter, openly. I am always honest, keeping in mind her age at the time of the question. I dont know if “THE Talk” is always the right thing. I think, my opinion, that an open gradual dialogue from the beginning is a good idea.

- am581 on

Well,I’m almost 30 and still wait for my mother to have the sex talk with me :) My daughters are very young to understand now(2 and 3) I presume but I’m afraid I won’t handle the situation when the time comes.I mean nobody talked to me about that topic and I don’t feel comfortable when talking about it.Last month my nephew and niece(both 5) came to me and asked exactly about the procces before the pregnancy and I was unprepared and hardly picked out some words to explain.

- Cheryl on

Lol, reading Judy Blume taught me the birds, the bees and things in between. My parents were utterly unprepared to have the talks. I’d recommend being supportive, frank and open! It can make a world of difference to a young person.

- sunlover on

I started reading the “It’s so amazing” book to my daughter last summer when she turned 7, and I took it out to reread with her this summer. That book is awesome and I highly recommend it. I think clarifying the body parts, functions, etc. and presenting them as normal and natural from an early age takes away a lot of the weirdness associated with these talks.

- Samantha on

Oh,I meant process…feeling so absent-minded these days.It’s a side effect of the pregnancy obviously.
btw Can you recommend me some books for learning how to explain to my children all those things in a fun and understandable way?They’re growing up so fast now and I don’t want to repeat my Mom’s mistakes.Thanks in advance :)

- Cheryl on

I think it’s great she’s so open with her daughter. It’s just too bad she had to share it with the rest of the world. Some conversations should remain sacred between mother and daughter. Its too bad the headline was obviously more important than her daughter’s privacy.

- Sadie on

No kids yet, I’ll buy them a book or something.And as purity ring.

- Electra on

Speaking honestly can be hard because it’s not as simple as Mommy and Daddy love one another so we did this and that’s how you were created. Some kids have two mommies so they didn’t make their babies the way mommy and daddy did and explaining artificial insemination (not to mention lesbian sex) isn’t as easy as explaining old fashioned sex. If you say Jimmy’s two daddies adopted him. They’ll be curious about how the two daddies do what mommy and daddy do when their parts are different? Do you let their friends explain that or some rep from Planned Parenthood that visits their school? I have a friend who lives with her girlfriend AND her boyfriend so that’s another conversation to have with the kids.

Also to pretend that human sexual is so normal is a little naive. Young girls are sexualized today. Many women I know have very negative memories of their early sexual experiences. They had sex too soon, too often, felt pressured by their friends, boyfriends and even parents. How do you prepare young women to say no when everyone says saying no is boring?

They see Miley Cyrus dancing with a stripper pole at the Teen Choice Awards. She’s sixteen and she’s already embracing the idea that young women are strongest when they’re overtly sexual. A young woman who focuses on school and work and financial success is boring. A woman who views her body as something precious not to pawn off to every sweet talking guy she likes this week is repressed. On the other hand, a young woman with multiple partners and a couple of abortions and STDs under her belt is free and unrestrained by the male dominated society. Some people say our society is repressed but the quickest way to get attention in Hollywood is a sex tape. How many young actresses think the best way to expand their options is to pose for Playboy? We say sex is healthy and natural, but essentially we as a society embrace women who use sex for power and success. It’s odd how society views a man who wants one woman and is loyal to her as a romantic ideal. If a woman is the same way, she’s limiting her options. That is hard to explain to a ten year old girl who thinks she can rule the world and be anything she wants. I’m kinda glad I don’t have daughters.

Oh, and try explaining to your kid that sex is natural and beautiful but if they do it with the wrong person they can get a nasty disease? The sex talks (and it should be more than one) are complicated and every parent needs to find their way.

- Mimi on

I cannot share personal experience, but this site might be helpful for some people: http://beyondbirdsbees.com/

It’s a collection of anecdotes and tips about that “first talk”–it’s quite often amusing and quite often very helpful (there’s a book that’s mentioned quite frequently by readers as useful, but I can’t recall what it is at the moment.

- MissMissy on

Mimi – Well, I would explain just that. That sex can bring diseases along and that can happen regardless of love. Protection is important, not only to prevent pregnancy. Then, I would proceed by listening and asking my own questions. What exactly is it that my child wants to know about? I would not lecture, I would listen and discuss, explain and listen some more. I’d draw pictures if neccessary or use posters. There are lots of good books for all ages about sex and reproduction. I’d take my child to the library to loan a few books or we’d go to the book store.

I do agree that western society, especially the entertainment business for kids, has taken things way too far. I think, however, that the best way to take this on is to talk about and explain about sex. We’re already in this mess so we can’t shut our eyes or our mouths.

- Hea on

A little girl I nanny for (age 7) had a book by Robie Harris (can’t remember which one) on her nightstand which sparked my curiosity. I picked it up and found a very detailed illustrated book containing all types of sex ed topics. It startled me at first when I looked through it, but it seemed like A great tool to introduce the topic. He has several books addressing the topic, which you can find by googling his name.

- marissa on

Erin, your comment about the MD not referring to a woman’s anatomy correctly cracked me up! I had my first baby recently and every nurse who attended me after delivery asked me to grade the pain level of my BOTTOM. I’m guessing they wanted to know how much my torn labia hurt, because my bottom felt just fine!!!!

- Stella Bella on

Wow, that’s young to be aware, albeit vaguely, of those things…

-meream

- All Women Stalker on

my parents were very open about everything and from a very very young age i think i knew the basics about sex. when i was four my mum became a social worker for people with HIV and AIDS. and so naturally when your mum gets a new job you want to understand it, and we asked questions. and so you can’t really explain what HIV and AIDS are without explaining sex and condoms and such. but i was always grateful that my parents prepared me well for these things. i could even talk about tihngs like contraception with them. and it just meant that i generally felt and still feel more comfortable with these topics than many of my friends who had more conservative parents.

we do the same with our kids. open and honest from a very young age. there is nothing to feel embarrassed or shy about. make your kids feel like they can talk to you about anything.

- JM on

My girls are 3 and 6 and they each know a little bit. The 3 year old knows that babies grow in uteruses and come out of vaginas most of the time, and that sometimes mommies need help to have the baby born so her doctor will cut an opening in her stomach to take the baby out for her. That’s all she seems to want to know now. My 6 year old knows that mommies have eggs and daddies have sperm and sometimes they come together in a special way to make a baby. She hasn’t wanted to get more specific than that quite yet.

- April on

Since my husband and I are both OB/GYN’s, we knew that our children would question the nature of our work, thus fueling their minds with questions about babies, sex, etc. Our daughter (3 1/2) recently asked us where babies come from, and how they were made; brought up by the fact that I am pregnant with #3 and #4. We sat down with her, and explained it honestly – with the assistance from her older brother (6). Our son was about her age when he questioned where babies come from (because I was pregnant at the time), and we explained sex to him, honestly. My husband and I want our children to know that they can comfortably talk about anything with us, without us getting embarrassed, because we want to make sure that our children are properly informed through us, and not through their friends, etc.

- Nylah on

I never got a sex/puberty talk at home and I’m fine lol. I read a few books on my own. Thankfully my aunt answered the most important questions I had. My mom would just change the subject. I guess she was embarrassed.

- Alex on

I wanted to clarify, when I said that sex is natural what I meant was that I don’t want my children to think it’s a taboo topic that should not be talked about especially with their parents. Of course I’m going to emphasize the risks associated with sex and that while it is natural it is a very mature act and shouldn’t be done until people are completely committed to one each other and in love.

It’s one thing to be open about the topic of sex and a whole other thing to make it seem like sex is normal for teenagers.

- Laura on

My parents started talking to me about sex from a very, very early age. They were never shy and never held back. They wanted to make sure I knew what sex was, and what the consequences of unprotected sex were. When I was a teenager, they even told me I could have sex if I wanted, but I MUST use protection. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with two consenting teenagers having sex as long as they are using protection. I mean, our ancestors used to get married and have children at 13, so sex at 15 or 16 isn’t that crazy. By nature, our bodies are ready for that in our teens and in most countries around the world, 16 is the legal age of sexual consent. It’s better to be open with your kids and be sure that they are having safe sex then to say “NO SEX UNTIL MARRIAGE!” and have your kid rebel against you and come home pregnant at 15. Its the kids with the super strict parents who never gave them a real sex talk and just said “no sex, no sex” who end up getting pregnant. My point is, you can’t exactly stop your child from having sex, they can easily lie to you about it, so there’s no point in trying to fight against nature, instead, you can educate them and fight against the potential risks that may come from sex.

- Y. on

All Women Stalker- Actually, most kids today have had some version of “the talk” by the time they reach Neriah’s age (which is 9). That’s not to say that, for example, parents are talking to their 6 year olds about STDS, birth control, and things like that. Obviously some of those things can be scary for young kids and it is probably best to wait until they’re a bit older.

However, many 6 year olds at least know that babies grow inside mommies in a place called the uterus (or womb, if that’s the term their parents use), and quite a few even know that mommy has eggs and daddy has “seeds” (most parents, to my knowledge, seem to prefer using the term “seeds” when explaining things to very young children.) and that those things can come together in a special way to create a baby.

Anyway, I don’t have kids, but as for how I learned about sex….My parents never really had a huge “talk” with me. They just let me know that the topic was normal, certainly not “taboo” and that I could come to them with questions anytime. Also, when I was just starting to go through puberty, my mom bought me the book “What’s Happening to My Body? Book for Girls”, and we read it together. Along the way, we would stop and discuss what was being talked about in the book, and my mom would ask if I had any questions.

She also shared some of her own thoughts and beliefs about the topic with me during those times (for example, sex is something that should only be shared between a husband and a wife). That above mentioned book also has a chapter covering rape, incest, and child molestation. During that chapter, my mom would continually ask if any of what the book was saying was scaring me, and made it clear that, if it was scaring me, we could take a break from the chapter and discuss my fears.

She also made it clear that it was perfectly okay for me to be scared or uncomfortable with the material in that chapter (or in any of the chapters, for that matter). We also had a few dicussions about hypothetical situations involving sex (such as “What would you do if_____________?” or, “Do you think___________is a good choice for someone to make?”).

Anyway, I think the best thing to keep in mind when talking to kids about sex is to make sure that you make it clear that the topic is not “taboo”, and that they can come to you with questions anytime (although it’s probably a good idea to mention that they shouldn’t be asking questions about sex when you’re, say, in the middle of a crowded restaraunt! In otherwords, make it clear that it’s natural, but it’s also something we only talk about in the privacy of our home or the car, just like going to the bathroom is natural, but we don’t talk about it in public.).

Obviously the answers need to be age-approprite, but other than that, I don’t think there really is such a thing as the “right” age to have “the talk”. Also, I think that, whether or not you’re ready to have “the talk”, it’s important to correct your child if they, for example, claim their cousin-to-be got in their aunt’s belly because she swallowed it!

- CelebBabyLover on

Y- I somewhat agree with you. I personally don’t agree with or believe in premarital sex, whether it be between two teenagers or two adults. However, I DO agree that it’s also not a good idea to make sex “the forbidden fruit”. If you do that, then, like with most other things you make forbidden, your teenager is likely to want it even more!

Here’s how I would handle it: I would make sure that my kid knew exactly what can happen if you have unprotected sex. I would also make it clear that I believe that sex is a a very sacred act that should only be shared between a husband and a wife. However, I would leave it at that. I would not forbid my teenager to have sex.

- CelebBabyLover on

I had the talk a couple times with mom and dad and at the end of
each talk session, dad and mom told me that if I am not ready to
support a child; financially and maturally, I had better keep my
tool in my trousers. I’ve had plenty of what I thought were
opportune moments, but it seemed that after the discussion with
the partner at the time, they saw that I was serious about a child
in our lives and that I would bring it up. It seemed they wanted
to play house, but not get serious about having a child and having
to raise it until it was ready to leave home. “If you’re going to
play, be ready to pay!” or something to that effect. Having a child and raising it and seeing to its needs is no small thing, &
some people neither have the maturity nor want the responsibility
of doing the job… anything else?

- tom h on

I agree with Brooke. I have always answered age appropriate truthfully when my kids asked me questions. Nothing was off limits. I would rather answer them when they ask then to put it off for when they are older because by that time, they have asked these questions to their friends or on the internet and have gotten wrong answers. I am proud to say my daughter is 20 and will be getting married soon a virgin, because I told her she could only give it away 1 time and she decided it will be to her husband. My 22 year old son has made the same decision.

- Tina Wilson on

check out BirdsandBeesandKids.com for a comprehensive list of books and products to talk to kids about sex and also a great book about clarifying your own values.

- Margit Crane on

I also forgot to mention that I’ve seen the Nat Geo special that Brooke mentioned (In the Womb)…and I love it (not surprising, since I love babies AND I’m facsinated by just about everything having to do with the human body. Yeah, I know, I’m weird! :) ). :)

- CelebBabyLover on

older topic, so i can’t remember if i responded… but, my oldest, my 6-yr-old son tim, asked me last thanksgiving, and i told him that we would discuss it soon. for the next few months, he continued to express interest, so i told him the whole story, about “baby seeds”– he wanted to know how the daddy seed got into the mommy, and i told him it happened from sex, and gently explained what that meant. he, naturally, didn’t like the idea of sex, lol.
i told him that it’s a private thing, and that he wasn’t to be sharing our talk with his classmates. he is an amazing secret keeper, for being so young. he has never shared any details about sex, or that there’s no Santa/Easter bunny etc., with any of his little friends, so i am proud, and glad i could satisfy his curiosity.
this past Mother’s Day, his school project was to draw a portrait of me. in it, i was wearing a necklace with a funny little pendant. i never ever wear any sort of jewelry at all, so i asked him about it, and he told me that it was my baby seed– lol. two weeks later, i accidentally became pregnant with his youngest sibling, due in february. what a funny little boy he is! intuitive, too! i’ve always thought he was gifted, like that.
my 3-1/2 yr-old daughter will be next, i suppose. i can wait on that– she is her brother’s opposite, and i don’t know how she’ll take her talk, lol!

my boyfriend– not the kids’ bio dad– freaked and got angry, when i told him of my talk with Tim, claiming he is too young, and that it was inappropriate for me to tell him. everyone i have consulted with since, on a “who’s right?”, has said that they agree with me telling him– the fact that he was asking, and didn’t give up on getting mommy to tell him, meant he was ready for the information. he is rather mature for his age, and can handle it, imo.

- ms. jaQ on

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